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San Diego, Ca.

I was wondering if anyone has used one of the mycorrhizae products that Bio-Organics offers and/or have any opinion about their product.
Here's their site to check it out:
http://www.bio-organics.com/Mycorrhizae_Products.html

2/5/2008 10:13:46 PM

Ohio

Thanks for the web site, the prices looks real reasonable, does that include shipping as well?

2/6/2008 3:56:43 AM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Although the 8 different endo speciaes is great, "Our spore count guarantee is a minimum of 50 spores per cubic centimeter," this number is low.

2/6/2008 6:20:42 AM

Dummer Twp - Ontario

I have ordered some to use this year and will try to use it on only one plant and the others will get the product Joel Holland sells so I can compare results.

Kirk

2/6/2008 7:11:06 AM

Rhode Island

a pinch of myco in you seed starter will also help the seeds root faster

2/6/2008 9:54:05 AM

southwest MO

Tom, what do you prefer the spore counts to be?

2/6/2008 10:50:03 AM

Washington State

Our Spore count on BioGrow Endo Plus (more properly called propagule count) is 60,000 per lb. plus two strains of Trichoderma. It is possible to cut a quality product with a worthless carrier material and sell it for much less, but what are you really getting for your money. Out spore count on the beneficial bacteria in our Aqua-Sol Plus is 6 billion per lb. Thanks

2/6/2008 12:36:23 PM

Ontario

Can't vouvh for Bio Organics, but have been using Joel's stuff for 3 years now and what a difference not only in the rooting but also the leaves, I used to get brown spots were the stem joined the vine and the leave would collapse, not sure why or what it is but since using Joels BioGrow endo plus the stems don't develop the brown rot. Will stick to the Bio GROW AND TRYING ALSO THE AQUASOL PLUS as well.

drew

2/6/2008 1:58:34 PM

San Diego, Ca.

If you look around on Bio-Organics website they talk about spore counts verses propagule counts.

This is what I found on their site:

The BioOrganics™ inoculants contain the top types of fungi spores from USDA and other tests, appropriate for any combination of plant, soil, and climate. And please note that our label counts are of mature shelf-stable spores, not "propagules" which are typically just cheap-to-produce hyphae fragments. This is the major difference between premium quality and inferior inoculants.

I'm not trying to step on anyones toes here, just doing some research to figure out if this stuff is a good choice.

2/6/2008 2:38:28 PM

southwest MO

Just to confuse things a bit more...

There are three types of mycorrhizal fungi inoculants commercially available endo, ecto and ericoid. Most are available in dry form. Ecto is in spore form and endo is available as propagules, i.e., spores, root fragments and hyphae. Endo in spore form alone is a poor inoculant if you want results within 6 weeks according to research that has been published. Research has shown that endo mycorrhizal inoculants with spores, root fragments and hyphae are superior to those containing only spores. Research shows that hyphal fragments are most infective, followed by mycorrhizal root fragments and then spores. Root fragments actually contain many spores and are better at protecting spores from adverse environmental conditions compared to spores alone. Ericoid is presently is in dry form.

Reasons why spores alone are dangerous for an inoculant:
1. Spores degrade over time, even when dried
2. For some species, spores are the only infective propagules and when they degrade the inocula are effectively dead.
3. For many species in Glomus, hyphae from root fragments can be up to 10X more infective than spores.
4. Root fragments, when dried, are not as susceptible to degradation as spores, especially in a formulation containing high organic matter.
5. Ergo (from 4 above), even if part of the inoculum degrades with storage, infective propagules still can be present for a longer period in a mixed inoculum formulation.

http://www.hortsorb.com/PDFfiles/Mycorrhizae%20Specie%20Characteristics.pdf

2/6/2008 4:16:26 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

CFU counts are a challenging subject.

All CFU's are either spores or once living propagules. Not all propagules are alive. Some may be little more than chopped mycelium fragments. Indeed most vegetative proagules won't be alive unless they were harvested & used within 90 days. Spores are the only propagules that can be stored & still expected to live. Figuring out which is which requires a lab.

I have no idea what any of the previously mentioned merchants are marketing.

Suffice to say that if mycelial fragments are used to make an inoculant then much more is needed than if spores were used. If a good inoculant is made with spores then the count won't be very important since those that are present will be more than sufficient to get the job done.

This should help explain it better:

http://www.planthealthcare.com/UserFiles/File/TechnicalBulletins_HortTurf/Mycorrhizal%20Fungal%20Inoculum%20-%20Not%20All%20Propagules%20are%20Spores.pdf

2/6/2008 4:28:16 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

BG & I were composing at the same time but our data conflicts.

2/6/2008 4:29:51 PM

southwest MO

So, how can we treat plants with mycorrhizal fungi? The rules haven't changed a bit - root dips, transplant amendments, root injection, drenches and vertimulching. What do we treat the plants with? And since we are going through the exercise, is there anything else that we can do? You bet there is. If the concept makes sense lets consider a “cocktail”. Instead of a simplistic approach (chemicals) lets use a systems approach (natural systems, that is). In fact, forget the “cocktail”, lets give the plant a “banquet”:

Ingredients and summary benefit statement:

Endomycorrhizal fungi - 7 fungal species - Glomus mosseae, Glomus intraradices, Glomus fasciculatum, Glomus dussii, Glomus clarum, Glomus deserticola, Glomus microaggregatum.
Ectomycorrhizal fungi - 3 + fungi - Pisolithus tinctorius, Scleroderma and multiple species of Rhizopogon.
Trichoderma - 6 fungal species that include Trichoderma (6 strains), Gliocladium virens (2 strains), Trichoderma harzianum (2 strains), Trichoderma viride (2 strains), - A beneficial fungus that is used to enhance mycorrhizal colonization and protect the roots.
Biostimulants - over a hundred from Humic Acid, Sea Kelp Extract, Humus, Yucca Plant Extract.
Amino Acids - known to buffer heavy metals and high salts and improve microbial activity in the soil.
Vitamins & Enzymes - biotin, folic acid, B, B2, B3, B6, B7, B12, C and K - essential for chlorophyll production, cell division, transpiration and respiration.
Beneficial Bacteria - 47 strains - Nitrogen Fixing, Phosphate solubilizing, Cytokinin-producing and Growth Promoting Bacteria. - to include Bacillus (32 species)(11 strains of the "mycorrhiza helper bacteria" Bacillus subtilla, Pseudomonas (2 species), Streptomyces (2 species).
Water Management Gels - agricultural grade to manage, i.e., slow release, hold, etc., water and nutrients.

2/6/2008 4:37:18 PM

southwest MO

I can copy and paste with the best of them! I'm not selling or recomending any products... Just passing along information trying to get to the bottom of it all.

Conflicting data?? Say it isnt so!!

The one thing I would consider in my innoculum is a biostimulant package... With 3 - 5 pounds per plant right at the root nodes It has to be adding to the gains

2/6/2008 4:44:06 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

My understanding is that MOST spores store better than FRAGMENTS. We have posted data that conflicts. It probably doesn't matter since most commercial preparations contain both. I'll make some calls tomorrow. Since we're after VAM inoculum that is what I will focus on.

2/6/2008 5:54:35 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

If you want to learn all about Mycorrhizae, Go to this site. They produce the world’s largest selection of commercially available mycorrhizal. I would say Mr. Holland gets his from this place. Some products have one or both ectomycorrhizae and endomycorrhizae. Endomycorrhizae is the only one you want for pumpkins. Ectomycorrhizae Won't do anything for pumpkins. The big heavy hitters get there Mycorrhizae for Holland's. http://www.mycorrhizae.com/index.php?cid=40

2/6/2008 7:32:52 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

http://www.mycorrhizae.com/index.php?cid=40

2/6/2008 7:33:42 PM